EU exit, for or against?

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lee
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Re: EU exit, for or against?

Post by lee » 01 May 2016, 18:37

Occams Razor wrote:Spot on Lee, of course the point could be made about the British walking into Ireland, India, Australia, America, Canada, South Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq, most of the Caribbean and dozens of other countries all over the world completely uninvited and imposing our ways on them. But maybe that's beside the point.
Are you still voting in?
Trying to find facts is a minefield.

What is your opinion on the money we pay in versus what we get out of it.
I see a net figure of about £10m a week after subsidies and rebates.
Do we get any value add for that?

Be very interested to get your take on it.

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Re: EU exit, for or against?

Post by Occams Razor » 01 May 2016, 19:24

lee wrote:
Occams Razor wrote:Spot on Lee, of course the point could be made about the British walking into Ireland, India, Australia, America, Canada, South Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq, most of the Caribbean and dozens of other countries all over the world completely uninvited and imposing our ways on them. But maybe that's beside the point.
Are you still voting in?
Trying to find facts is a minefield.

What is your opinion on the money we pay in versus what we get out of it.
I see a net figure of about £10m a week after subsidies and rebates.
Do we get any value add for that?

Be very interested to get your take on it.
Yes, I'm just on the staying in side, the cost of staying in is relatively chickenfeed compared to the turnover in trade. To me personally the buffer of European law, particularly employment law means a lot to the average Joe.
My biggest bugbear about Europe is the obfuscation of accounts which means that nobody knows exactly what the true situation is about payments in and out of Europe, I'd guess this is for exactly what we're seeing now, no clear picture and in and out parties can construct arguments using reliable sources and statistics to paint very different pictures.
One of my main reasons for In is trade with America, Obama is very pro Europe and would (as he's said) give us a hard time if we left, when another president is in with an opposing view this might swing my point of view.

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Re: EU exit, for or against?

Post by Cabernet » 01 May 2016, 22:23

Greece is one of my fleece. How the EU chooses to deal with that maybe the big decider for me.
A Kentish man living in Manchester.

"As soon as he (Tozzi) started with the personal remarks I assumed he was struggling with the rest of his case", Ross Brawn 2009,

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Jim27
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Re: EU exit, for or against?

Post by Jim27 » 03 May 2016, 09:26

When your business borrows money from the bank, the bank manager wants to see your accounts and be comforted that you're running your business competently. If you can't service your debt to the bank then the bank manager puts you into administration and replaces you at the head of your own business with someone who instead runs your business how the bank manager wants it run, in the bank manager's interests.

Germany is the bank manager.
Greece and Portugal are the failing companies.
Twice now we have seen democratically elected governing bodies replaced by Germany with unelected controlling third parties who now effectively control those countries on behalf of Germany.

The availability of ECB bail outs is the drug dealer offering his wares to those disorganised underachievers who don't have the self-discipline to refuse. They then owe the dealer and thus are under the dealer's control.

The issue I have with this situation is that whilst Germany is the bank manager/dealer here, it's expanding its own power base but using money compulsorily harvested from the UK and other countries to do so. This is despite the fact that the UK was given assurances that it wouldn't be forced to pay towards the bail outs yet that's exactly what's happened. The EU has a habit of making placating promises to the UK to get what it wants and then substantively reneging on them.

My greatest concern here is not immigration or trade. It is that we are being used as a piggy bank to fund Germany's desire to enforce economic and monetary union on all European countries, irrespective of the cost. The reason for that is that Germany controls the ECB, effectively delivering the domination of Europe that Germany has historically aspired to but has never fully achieved.

Bailing out member countries who have proven that they are incapable of managing their own finances is simply protracting the inevitable. There is a mechanism that allows countries to manage their own finances, and part of that is the ability of their currency to inflate/deflate in relation to the currencies of their trading partners. Without that mechanism you are trying to anchor a tree in a hurricane. Nature has designed it to be able to sway, yield, bend and recover. But Germany wants it to remain solid and unmoving, but all that actually does is creates huge tension and stresses within the stucture so that when it does finally crack, it happens with an explosive force that has massive consequences for everything around it.
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We're here for a good time, not a long time.
The power to change your life comes from taking total responsibility for it.

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Re: EU exit, for or against?

Post by Cabernet » 03 May 2016, 12:41

Jim27 wrote:When your business borrows money from the bank, the bank manager wants to see your accounts and be comforted that you're running your business competently. If you can't service your debt to the bank then the bank manager puts you into administration and replaces you at the head of your own business with someone who instead runs your business how the bank manager wants it run, in the bank manager's interests.

Germany is the bank manager.
Greece and Portugal are the failing companies.
Twice now we have seen democratically elected governing bodies replaced by Germany with unelected controlling third parties who now effectively control those countries on behalf of Germany.
As you use parables:-

In my commercial law training I recall that if you agree to a contract including, "time is of the essence", should you then run in to difficulties, the other party can assume control of your business and run it to safeguard their own. Hence we were taught to never accept that clause or anything similar. Indeed, to accept them knowingly or unknowingly was grounds for instance dismissal. Now I read this article and see how a struggling country is being dictated to. Have to wonder, why we would accept this kind of risk (or have we opted out of this clause, and if so, where and when).
A Kentish man living in Manchester.

"As soon as he (Tozzi) started with the personal remarks I assumed he was struggling with the rest of his case", Ross Brawn 2009,

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Re: EU exit, for or against?

Post by Chickenstrips » 04 May 2016, 21:55

Cabernet wrote:Greece is one of my fleece. How the EU chooses to deal with that maybe the big decider for me.
And Turkey is a bit murky

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Re: EU exit, for or against?

Post by Cabernet » 04 May 2016, 23:00

Chickenstrips wrote:
Cabernet wrote:Greece is one of my fleece. How the EU chooses to deal with that maybe the big decider for me.
And Turkey is a bit murky
Not to mention the TTIP and the eu army.

Sent wrestling with Tapatalk.
A Kentish man living in Manchester.

"As soon as he (Tozzi) started with the personal remarks I assumed he was struggling with the rest of his case", Ross Brawn 2009,

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Re: EU exit, for or against?

Post by Cabernet » 25 May 2016, 23:48

I'll just leave this here.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... -moscovici" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A Kentish man living in Manchester.

"As soon as he (Tozzi) started with the personal remarks I assumed he was struggling with the rest of his case", Ross Brawn 2009,

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Re: EU exit, for or against?

Post by Goody » 26 May 2016, 02:49

Cabernet wrote:I'll just leave this here.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... -moscovici" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Laughable but not so funny

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Re: EU exit, for or against?

Post by cupidstunt » 26 May 2016, 13:24

Another reason why we need to bail out of this gravy train
:geek: HEAD PERVERT :geek:


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